UAC 174 | Lessons From COVID-19

 

Society seems to ask too much of us that it can be quite stressful to fully embody who we want to be and feel worthy just as who we are. How do we overcome that and accept that we are worthy as ourselves? Thane Marcus Ringler lets us in on this session of couch conversations with his wife, Evan Ryan Ringler, where they talk about worthiness, lessons from COVID-19, and the coming Holiday Season. They share their experience of having tested positive for the virus and the things they learned during those span of two weeks. Looking forward, Thane and Evan then discuss the upcoming Holiday season, how it is going to be different this year, what mindset they are having for it, and their plans on how to spend it. 

Listen to the podcast here:

174: Couch Conversations with Evan Ryan Ringler: You Are Worthy, Lessons From COVID-19, And Our Focus For The Holiday Season

This is all about learning how to live a good life. That’s about the process of becoming, which hopefully we’re in our entire lives as we continue learning until the day we die. We are all about living with intentionality. Our mantra is having intention in the tension, which means having a reason why behind what we do. That is what we are about. Thank you for being a fellow up and comer on this journey. We need each other, we can’t do it alone. Thank you for that. If you are new to the show, welcome. If you’ve been here for a bit and you want to support us, or if you’re new and you want to support us, there are a couple of easy ways.  

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We have a couch conversation. This is the new installment of combos with me and my lovely wife, Evan. Welcome back to the show.

Thanks for having me.

It is an honor to be sitting on the couch with you. We are sipping a Spindrift Raspberry Lime made with real fruit. Shout out to Canada Dry.

We walked through COVID. Thane at lease for sure. I did too. With that, we discovered Ginger Ale by Canada Dry, zero sugar. It is delish, so I’m drinking some of that.

We thought it would be fun to chat about a few things that we have been thinking, working and going through in life. I love the quote, “Which is most personal is most universal.” That shapes a lot of our heart in these couch conversations of sharing what we’re going through, knowing that inevitably you will probably be going through something similar. The first is a journey of creation and I’m proud of my wife for this. It’s something that began as an idea, turned into a reality, and has continued to grow, change, and iterate over the months that it has been a reality. That is this thing called Worthy. I want to give a shout out to my wife while we’re here. It’s been fun to watch you put this thing into real life. For people reading, what is Worthy and what is a bit of the origin story?

Thank you for your words, it’s kind and not necessary. Worthy started from a place of wanting to empower women, divinely or randomly. I had a bunch of women from past circles, like high school, middle school, reach out all at the same time around the start of COVID in the US. I felt there was this universal theme of settling for women, for instance, I’m in this relationship and I don’t know if it’s okay or I’ve been facing a lot of these demons, but I guess I’ll always be that way. I wanted women to know and be reminded that they are not their circumstances, or they do not have to settle for what society tells them. I’m not on social media. I was like, “What is something that would be helpful?” I was prayerful through it, I was open to getting on social media if that’s what God wanted, or that was the best way to reach people. I enjoy writing. I feel my thoughts become clear when writing, as most writers do. I landed on a weekly email that seeks to empower women. I started that in July 2020 and committed to doing that weekly through 2020.

What would you say the journey has taught you about creating things? What does it teach you about life, vulnerability and growth, even how it’s changed you? I’m curious to hear some of your reflections on that journey so far.  

Worthy showed me more about what bravery or courage looks like and a lot of that is going first and saying, “I have struggled with this.” It’s not that relatable. Some people might struggle with this. It’s been fun to incorporate other women who are part of Worthy and have a space to share their experiences on whatever topic it is. Everyone is different and universal at the same time. That’s a beautiful reminder that a struggle is a struggle, or it doesn’t even have to be a struggle, but I feel we face a lot of the same things as human beings. It’s nice to be reminded of how one we are and how personal it can be, because my experiences is this way doesn’t mean it will be your experience.

Humor is a sweet addition to life. Not everything needs to be that serious. Click To Tweet

As a one on the Enneagram, I have perfectionist tendencies. My first few issues, especially I was like, “What are people going to think?” I’m fearful of judgment. I want to make sure this is how this is being read by someone else and I can’t control that. At the same time, it is helpful to try to get as clear as possible with what I’m saying and not a lot of words, which I feel is another writer’s journey of trying to convey what you mean. I feel I’ve had to let those things go and lean into, “This was my experience.” It’s something that I’ve tried to do with it is pose questions because I am by no means an expert on anything. I’m sharing my narrative and my experiences and that’s it. I would much rather hear and learn from someone else. I feel like questions are helpful and refinement. I’m also not wanting anyone to think exactly like me, that’s not the point of Worthy. I do think the same questions can be helpful for all people and it’s not to get to the same result of, “You need to think like this.” I feel questions have helped me get down to core issues or core motives. It might be helpful to other people too.

What would you say are the ways that it has changed? Has it changed or shifted much for you?  

Yes. You go through like, “Does anybody read this?” One of my teammates when I played soccer at Arkansas, she thought about things as if she was performing for an audience of one. Jesus was all about the one seeking after individuals and it was always personal. I’ve been trying to think about the one, even if this is for one person, then that’s enough. It’s been a freeing place to operate out of. I think all of us are numbers driven, especially business-minded people of, “Is this producing results? What’s my ROI?” It’s been freeing to let that go and think if I’m doing this to refine my thoughts and I hope it helps one person. Even if that person is me, that is enough letting go of ego or capital S Self or lowercase S self. Life happens. We had a couple of crazy weeks where I didn’t get to Worthy, and I was too busy for it. It wasn’t a priority those two weeks. I’ve been playing catch up, which has also in itself been a lesson in freeing of not every word needs to be perfect and to have fun with it too. Humor is a sweet addition in life and not everything needs to be that serious.

We’ve been talking about why Joe Rogan is one of the most listened to podcasters and it might’ve been another interview that we heard that was different than that, but the reality that he inserts brevity or humor into things that are hard. It opens up the space to allow more people to hear, because humor softens the blow of things. It makes it more relatable as a human. It is an important part of conveying any message.  

They were saying humor helps say things almost more clearly than if you were to say it without. To note on Joe, he’s brave in the way he speaks, because so much of it can be construed to, “Joe said this topic.” He was making a joke or knowing people were going to clip that and throw it as a news article title and get clicks. I appreciate that about Joe of the no F’s of, “I’m going to do what I’m doing and if you like it, you like it.”

We haven’t talked about any of this and part of this is me being interested. Coming into it with your expectations and as you went through it, was it more or less work than you expected and more or less rewarding than you expected?  

I would say yes. More or less work than I expected, both is what you make it. Nothing has to be that stressful. It has become less stressful in the journey is more rewarding. Sometimes I’ll write something that I’m like, “That was good,” and not hear anything. Sometimes I’ll write something, and someone will say how that impacted them and I’m like, “Really? That worked for it. That did it?” It’s humbling. The thing I’ve been learning is it’s not to replicate me. It’s not to make sure everyone thinks the way I think. I am passionate about what I think. I could totally be wrong on this, but this is what I’m thinking, from my experience with it. I talked with some other people who are in a completely different stage of life who experienced it this way. This is what I think, maybe in a month, my perspective has changed and I hope so because I hope to have learned more in a month, and that’s not true with everything. In general, it’s a sweet place to stand in. I might not know.

If there’s someone reading this that has thought about starting X, Y, or Z, it could be anything online, it could be something physical, some project that they’ve thought of or dreamed up or had in mind for a bit. Is there any advice or anything that you would share? Any words of encouragement for someone like that?  

The easy answer is, “Go for it.” Anyone can do this and that’s the truth. Take the first step, whatever that is. If it’s meeting with someone about their podcast or their newsletter. If it’s starting to write every day to refine your way of thinking or what you’re thinking or to get clear about your convictions and beliefs. It’s been as empowering to me as I hope it has been to other people. If there’s something that you’ve been led to, take a step and try not to have expectations or try to strip some of the worldly sites that are easily gripping of, “If I start a podcast, I have to have X amount of listeners a month. If I do a newsletter, I have to have these many people subscribed and these many clicks to get sponsors.” That’s way putting the chariot ahead of the horses. If it’s out of a place to help people, that shouldn’t be your markers. It’s unmeasurable as we’ve talked about it.

The resounding message I’m hearing, and I would agree with, is doing it for the one and doing it for yourself. It’s synonymous in many ways, but it’s worth it for you and it’s worth it for one, and if that’s true, then go.

UAC 174 | Lessons From COVID-19

There are weeks where I’m like, “I don’t want to do this.” It feels more “selfless” like, “I’m doing this for the one,” and it ends up after I’m done like, “That was helpful. It was centering for me.”

That’s why it’s like a practice. Motivation or inspiration comes in waves. Motivation is the underlying why behind it. If you have that in place, then you can weather the waves of inspiration.  

You’re good at that too.

It’s a practice. We are practicing it. Other things that we’ve been practicing or recovering if we transition to the topic at hand of COVID, which 2020 has been a COVID year and forever will be remembered as a COVID year. Hopefully, it’s isolated and we get to move past 2021. All two of us got COVID along with many others. We got down under with the virus, we went and got tested. I came in positive and Ev has this killer immune system. She is negative, but realistically we both had it, we’d been on the mend. I thought it might be interesting to share a little bit of our personal experience with COVID and even some more meta lessons learned from COVID.  

What part of the journey are you on and where do you think we got it?

I don’t know where we got it. We have been doing good in Denver, but we also aren’t holing up in our apartment. We’ve interacted in public settings. I’ve taken the tram and the subway into work. I’ve been in a coworking space, played some basketball, some buddies, who knows? It’s such a hard thing to know where we got it from. You were volunteering.  

We were still responsible, we’re in masks and going to grocery stores. The only gathering we’ve been at was church and no one had it there. It’s hard to know and no one who we know had it or has it. I’m thinking we got it from someone we might not know. Who knows?

There is cultural shame associated with it to where we both felt some stress or even guilt about impossibly having given it to someone else. No one knows that much about it. We’re all guessing and you can’t know right away if you have it or don’t and because at two-day limbo period of you may not have symptoms, but you may be carrying it. That produces a lot of this, “Did I get anyone else sick? What if I got someone who’s old or their systems compromised and somehow, I infected them?” There’s a lot of shame and guilt and for some there’s good reason in that. It would be horrible for us to give it to our 72-year-old neighbor who might not be able to survive that. There’s some of that that’s justified, but a lot of that too is projected onto because of what other people think of that.

There was some narrative around we weren’t responsible. Everyone thinks they’re an expert. It’s been hurtful to have people, “Do you think you got it here?” I’m like, “I’ve been navigating this just as you have. I don’t know.” There are people who have had it and have had zero symptoms. No one knows. We have had some shame and guilt, especially around potentially passing our neighbor in the hall. Did we give it to them? We’re grateful that no one we know has gotten it, but yes, we’ve had it for two weeks and a day.

Speaking of symptoms, what was it like?  

Humor helps say things almost more clearly than if you were to say it without. Click To Tweet

Symptoms were onset on a Monday evening, and I got a bad headache. I couldn’t be around light and sound. I wanted to lay down and have an ice pack on my head. That was different for me. I don’t experience headaches, and quickly we were getting the chills, fevers and body aches. There were two intense days of fever. Yours broke quick. Mine relatively stayed mild. Your fever broke on day two and a half. From then, we got tested the Tuesday after we had symptoms come on. It felt like a cold. The last few mornings I’ve been waking up with a tight chest and headaches and the weight on the chest. It’s hard to know because as someone who experiences anxiety, then you’re like, “Something else is happening.” It is a respiratory thing. It’s a cold. Were there any symptoms that you experienced that I missed?

Having a fever for a couple of days straight, it was not fun, but when it broke, that was helpful. Chills, aches, some headaches. I lost smell for four days and that impacted taste, which was weird too. It was not fun. I hadn’t been sick in years. That was a good reminder of the blessing of good health, how much you can’t do when you don’t have it. For people who face a lot of sickness, chronic illness or pain, it’s tough. It’s a different mode of living. I got some good empathy that I hadn’t in a while, and it’s been tough coming back because we both have lower energy. We’re 90% now, but I do feel weak and low energy still trying to do work, feeling lightheaded. I’m the weakest I’ve been in a while and that stuff, it is humbling. It’s a few steps back and that’s the nature of every sickness most often. It’s good to reconnect with some of that.

What are some of the meta things you’ve learned through COVID?

I’m excited to hear from you on that because I know you got some deep dives on that with Worthy that you shared briefly with me. The thing that’s been good from getting it is that we’ve researched it more than we did before to try and get our heads around it. The more you dive into research, the more you realize there isn’t that much that’s known about it. I saw the same PiLab tweet, some studies that have been done and some Danish studies that were clearly an agenda to propagate one side of the argument that was not a well-done study. The point is because it’s new and there isn’t that much information, whatever side of the argument you want to be on this or that, this being helpful, that not being helpful, it could be mask, the tests, or the distancing.

Everyone has a different opinion. If you want to support your opinion, maybe get a study published that shows your side. The study is geared towards showing that side then you’re going to show your side, but not accomplish anything because you’re proving what you already believe to be true, which isn’t a good study anyways. The studies would say, “Here’s a theory. Does this back it up? Now, how can we find a way for this theory to be true?” What I’m learning even from having it is that we don’t know as much as we would like to know, and that’s not surprising. When you change your opinion on things, that’s a good thing because it means you’re learning. If the CDC says one thing and then a month later, they say something else, that’s good. That means they’re learning something, and same with us. It’s helped me try to infuse more compassion or understanding in conversations with people but trying to maybe point out the opposite perspective of whoever I’m talking to say, “What you’re saying may be true.”

Holding a posture that hears.

Give me some of your takeaways because these are good.  

One, our views are shaped by our experiences. I wouldn’t say fully, but I would say widely. If we have friends and people we love that think COVID is bogus and life should go on as normal, we have people that are friends and that we love that think we should be hermits until everyone is vaccinated. Our narratives and what we have walked through wildly shaped the way we see things. If you’re an eighteen-year-old freshman in college who’s healthy and all your friends are getting together for a party, you will go. I understand that.

My eighteen-year-old self would.

When you’re eighteen, your world is your world. It’s revolving around you and I get that. I was there too.

UAC 174 | Lessons From COVID-19

 

Even at 28, 29, sometimes that could be true.

Probably every age when you’re young and having fun. At the same time, if you’re in your 90s and you have a predisposed condition, I understand why you’re trying to take space and be careful. As someone in their twenties, I can’t imagine how it would feel to give someone COVID. A lot of the people who we’ve talked with who think life should be normal, this is a cold, most of them haven’t lost someone to COVID. Most of them have not experienced COVID themselves. It wasn’t enjoyable by any means. It wasn’t the worst thing that’s happened to us, but that was our experience. There are people who have died from it and who have been in the hospital for days.

There are people that we know that have had it that don’t think that much of it, because it wasn’t that big of a deal for them. That’s understandable too. If you go through it and you’re like, “That wasn’t much more than a cold.” It seems like a smaller deal than people are making it. It’s a wide spectrum in that.

The next one, it’s not all about you. It’s like the same and at the same time, different. I know there have been people who’ve had to move their weddings. Sometimes to me, when I’m reading that language, it’s a lot of like, “This has been such a hard year, and this has affected my dream wedding.” I hear that and I find myself frustrated because it’s a pandemic. It’s happening to the entire world. There are people without medical professionals at hand. It’s been interesting to see how, and I understand too, especially with all of us being isolated, it could feel like it’s happening to you.

Back on our story, we were in that place, that week of getting married, of being like, “This is stressful and crazy that all of our plans are being changed.” In the moment, we’re always affected in a greater degree than outside looking in.  

Those two were same-same. I have three more, everyone’s an expert, quick with the shoulds and shouldn’ts. Especially after we’ve had it, after we’ve been trying to navigate what the CDC has said, which is changing, which is good, as they said, that means they’re learning, we’re adapting. No one knows for sure. To have everyone come at you, common people of, “You should do this. You shouldn’t do this. You probably got it here.” I’m like, “You do not know as we do not know.” With that, something to encourage us, we need to have grace, we need to allow people and ourselves to change our minds, learn, grow and adapt new policies.

I wonder what it’s like because this is such a big deal. That’s one of my favorite points you shared and are going to share in that. This happens nowadays that everyone becomes an expert because of the platforms are available. We’re talking to microphones and it makes us feel like an expert. You’re on a phone, social media, posting to people. All of these things are geared towards producing this feeling of being an expert or having something to say, which isn’t necessarily the same thing, but I’m curious. Are there any practices you think that would be helpful in helping all of us not turn into an “expert” when we aren’t or shouldn’t be?

Something that’s been helpful to me is trying to lead with questions. What have you experienced that makes you want to wear masks everywhere or trying to also put things into context of, “I’m speaking with a man in his 80s, I’m speaking to a woman in her twenties.” Those are different contexts. Leading with questions like, “What has your experience been like? Have you lost anyone that has COVID? What have you read about the CDC?” It gets confusing because it does, “Tell me what your summaries of that was.” Leading with questions is helpful because I feel like we’re quick to say the shoulds of, “You should be doing this, and you should have been more careful.” It’s like, “I still have to go to the grocery store and get food. I’ve got to do that.”

This is something my grandpa taught me, but asking, “May I make a suggestion?” As we’ve navigated 2020, asking for permission to be wrong, it’s one of our pastors coined saying, “This is what I think right now I could be wrong.” It’s a beautiful place, a place that I’ve felt with you, Thane. When you’ve approached me that way, I feel like it leads from humility and that creates a totally different floor for people to come onto instead of, you should and you shouldn’t, because people aren’t going to come onto the fourth. That’s the stage that set.

On the flip side, there’s a lot of understandable critic and critique on everybody being an expert, which then can lead to the negative other side of the coin of not feeling confident to say your thoughts or opinions on anything. To have an honest discourse, we have to be free to express ourselves and what we do think or see, or how we view something without fear of judgment, even though knowing that as humans, we judge other humans. The danger comes when we start making people bigger or smaller than they should be, which is the same size as us or anyone else, because we’re all human.

Rules are great until they inconvenience you. Click To Tweet

It’s cool to also approach things with this idea that everybody thinks they’re an expert and we have the power to give them or not give them that by who we pay attention to, who we put our likes or our votes to, who we read, watch or listen to the most. The people that are more often assumed to be experts, how we approach them with intellectual honesty and critique and be like, “This is another person’s perspective.” Especially reading a book, the thing that’s changed my view the most is by writing a book, I’ve been like, “This book is someone’s opinions that they cared enough about to put into a book format and go through the work of publishing it.” I get to see it as that. That has been some interesting ways to approach it.

I also think I’m an expert and I don’t know if we would say it that explicitly. We’re all operating. One of my dearest friends who is hilarious to me told me like, “Were you saying that because you think you’re right?” I was like, “Yes. I think I’m right. That’s why I’m sharing it this way.” That’s true for all of us. We’re sharing what we think we know to be true at the time. I am sharing that because I think I’m right. To put it plainly as I’m an expert too, that helps not be so righteous and looking down the nose of, “If only those people thought this way.” I’m right there too. I’m navigating the best way I think I should and the way that I think is respectful to others and that differs it’s subjective. People pick and choose to follow the rules if it suits them. I feel we’re quick to shake the finger of, “You should quarantine for 38 days.” That same person is going out and about as they please. We all do that, and we all make exceptions.

Rules are great until they inconvenience you and we felt that too. When we got COVID, we had to cancel a lot of plans and quarantine in our little apartment. That wasn’t fun. It was fun being with you but it’s not fun both of us being sick and stuck indoors in some nice days. We went on some walks with mask and it was okay. We had some amazing and generous neighbors and friends, get us groceries, buy us some food. It’s cool, the power of community in that but it was an inconvenience in the sense that we couldn’t do what we want to do. It’s harder to follow the rules when it’s an inconvenience to you. It was a lot easier to say something than do it. That’s for sure.

As a side note, even wanting to get outside and go for a walk and get some fresh air, I felt like we were even restricted by our illness with that. We would get tired within five minutes. My last thing that I feel like I’ve learned is we have made evil of the other. I feel COVID has made that clear to me or has taught me that I feel 2020 in general has taught me that if you are not for me, you are against me, and my ways are good, your ways are bad. Even equating political parties with good and bad. I don’t agree and I don’t see how we can come to a place of unity when it’s a constant this or that.

That’s also a result of leadership. When you have leadership that propagates that on both sides, then naturally the trickle-down effect will reach all of us in this country and in the world. The polarity has grown because of leadership has that’s what sells, that’s what markets well, that’s what gets attention or votes. It’s not a surprise, yet we are also playing a different role that can help produce the change that we want to see and it starts with you and me and individuals. It’s sad that we see it more readily present than ever before.  

One of the parts in Worthy is stay the course. It’s helpful. What’s helping you be your best self each day. How do we think objectively? In researching or trying to find some things to consider, I came across this article that said, “Thinking objectively is ruining your life.” That goes against what I’m saying, but not what after you read it. The author says, “I’m a liberal and oftentimes my side of the aisle breaks my heart where it’s supposed to be the ones who are tolerant and understanding of others, yet I often see how closed-minded we are. We want conservatives to have compassion for immigrants, people of color, the LGBTQ community, and those of different faiths. Despite all this, we constantly neglect the fact that our fellow Americans deserve that same tolerance.”

He goes on to say our experiences are a lot of what shape our subjective thinking and it’s interesting how we throw objective, that’s objectively false and no, that opinion is different than yours. It reminded me, Nadia Bolz-Weber. She’s a pastor and a Lutheran minister. I forget her title in Denver. She was talking about on the same accord of how she grew up in a fundamentalist home, “conservative.” In her twenties, she went to “the other side” held more liberal views, more “progressive way” of thinking. She was like, “I’m doing the exact same thing I was doing when I was a ‘fundamentalist Christian’ of dualistic thinking of I’m right, they’re wrong. I wasn’t awake. I had swung to the other side doing the same things.” If we’re honest, we do get in those places of right or wrong, this or that, instead of holding space for all. At the same time, I do think there is evil. I do think there’s good and bad. I don’t think it’s as objective as we like to make it.

I heard on podcasts when we were driving to Kansas, I think he was a pastor in New York, Rich Villodas was talking about how, even within the Christian Church, depending on the circle or sphere you’re in, you emphasize one part of the triad. He said more on the conservative side, it’s about having the right truth or doctrine. On the more charismatic sides, having the right experiences and the more liberal or progressive side, it’s having the right action, taking the right actions for justice or mercy. It was like, “Each one of those is needed. We need each one of those. We need to search for the right truth and having the right experiences.” When you have searched for the right actions, take those. We can’t have one without the other two. There’s a triad of emphasis that’s needed, whether that’s within Christianity or outside of faith world and everyday life of what we emphasize.  

We have made evil the other. I don’t think that’s what we’re meaning. I hope it’s not. I don’t think that’s what Jesus came to do. Human beings are capable of awful, horrible things. When we start to make our convictions, our identity, as soon as anyone threatens that identity, that’s a personal attack. I don’t think it’s always that personal. It’s that person’s life experiences that have shaped the way they’re thinking. How do you expect that person to change if we don’t create a loving space for that to happen? If we’re shaking our finger, “You don’t understand. It’s hard for me to understand people like this.” That sounds like a new issue.

To round out our time on the couch, I thought it would be fun and shout out to Mama Ringler for the idea. We’re asking them over lunch at Ken’s, “What would be helpful to chat about?” She came up with a great idea of what is a focus or mindset to carry forward for this holiday season in 2020, Christmas and time with family. There’s a wide array of experiences with that. Some people not being able to be with family, some are and everything in between. It would be fun to hear from you and I’ll share a little bit about what we think would be helpful for us. What would you say is a focus or mindset that you’ve been carrying? What do you think is going to be helpful for you?  

UAC 174 | Lessons From COVID-19

 

Something that’s been front of mind for me is this idea of being humble and gentle. Remembering that 2020 has been a hard year for everyone, and that looks different for all of us. It’s fair to say hard, nonetheless. Being humble to know that and gentle in that space and that could look like a lot of different things. It could be holding space. How can I be the most loving to this person? Can I listen and try to hear what they’re saying? We won’t be able to see our grandparents this Thanksgiving or Christmas. How do we make them seen, known and loved even though we can’t be together? Those are things I’ve thought through of this idea of humility and gentleness. This has been a hard year for everyone. How can we be gentle with each other?

I’ve been thinking a lot about how to be fully present and to be lighthearted or pursuing joy and simple, fun things with each other. We’re going to work on a puzzle here, playing some cards, and appreciating the simple joys of being present with each other is such a great way to bring some comfort, hospitality, or maybe even the right spirit for this season. The other thing that’s definitely a component of 2020 is being understanding and gentle with others who haven’t been able to do that. There are going to be people that aren’t able to be with family or loved ones. I know a guy in the Good Metro that I do on Fridays. He’s not going to be able to go home to Canada for the first time in his whole life where he’s from. He can’t do it. Trying to communicate in an understanding way, being conscious that people are going to experience different things, and it’s going to be harder and easier for some, it’s an interesting time. That focus of mindset of projecting less, don’t project on the others your own experience, but be grateful for your experience.

Thanks for this. I have enjoyed chatting.

It’s been fun over some Ginger Ale.

I love you.

I love you most much.

Following up with one last thing to note. If you would like to get a curated list of all the content I’m learning from, whether that be books I’m reading, podcasts I’m listening to, quotes I’m pondering or even some sermons I’m enjoying, In-Thane is a monthly newsletter that brings vetted content that I know you’ll enjoy. Go to ThaneMarcus.com/inthane to sign up and you’ll be sure to receive the next one. Each edition of In-Thane is released on the first Sunday of the month. This is a once a month newsletter that I hope you enjoy and benefit from as much as I have. Here’s to learning and growing one day at a time.

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